Thoughts on Torchwood
Jul. 10th, 2009 08:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
altogetherisiparticularly Children of Earth, Day 4.
Well.
I am annoyed. I might even be angered.
I am also saddened, and disappointed.
So, Ianto died last night.
Now, I don't like spoilers. I hate spoilers. I don't like being spoiled, and I hate hate hate if I spoil someone else by accident. But, even without spoilers I was pretty sue Ianto was going to die. I kept trying to deny it, hope for the best, but to be honest the Torchwood writers are a bit obvious and predictable in this regard. Also, how many times have they tried to kill Ianto now, like 2? 3? They never really knew what to do with his character, and probably didn't predict the huge fandom following he would have when he was created. Plus at the Hub 2 GDL mentioned he was looking for pilots. So yeah, I was really hoping he wouldn't be killed, but it wasn't a shock.
But, it was really annoying. Frankly it pissed me off.
It pissed me off because Ianto's death was entirely pointless.
It was stupid. It didn't make sense. It was a complete betrayal of the character.
And I am particularly angry because the rest of the Children of Earth series so far has been really, really good. The writers have proven they can in fact write, they've used the extended format to their advantage. And now, they just fuck it all up completely pointlessly.
There was absolutely no reason for Ianto to even be in that building. It would have been a better plan, one that made more sense, if Ianto had gone with Rhys - he could have protected Rhys, protected the footage. Ianto knows more about computers than Rhys does. If Rhys had been caught somehow, and out of all of them obviously he is most likely to slip up, as much as I love him, so having Ianto go with him might have actually been a good idea. Day Two showed how the team can be really quite effective when they are apart. And in the event the assassin woman just shot Gwen and Jack was I don't know, trapped agan somehow, wouldn't you prefer Ianto to still be out there. You would. Obviously.
Ianto could not defend Jack, and his being there provided someone else to distract Jack and possibly provide someone Jack would have to defend. Jack's family was already being held hostage. It was not at all sensible to put someone ele he cares about in needless harm when he wasn't also adding anything.
And, quite frankly, he wasn't. He made those phone calls, but he couold have then gone off to meet Rhys or something. He followed jack into the building, and Jack didn't really do anything either to be honest, but at least Jack can't die. Or stay dead anyway. Ianto stood next to Jack, and made a couple of silly comments, and then he died. There was no point to it. The writers could have at least come up with some mcguffin that Ianto had to do something in the room, or was even guarding the door, something, anything, but no. He wasn't doing anything at all, and there was absolutely no reason for Ianto to go into the building, except to die.
I wouldn't be so angry if he'd been given a good death. I'd still be sad of course, but still. When Tosh and owen died, it made sense. They were heroes. They had amazing deaths. I miss them, but they went out brilliantly, poignant and heart breaking, and not entirely ridiculously. It was sad, but it was excellent writing. And that simply wasn't the case with Ianto's death. They've shown Ianto to be caring, intelligent, noble, and his death was so stupid and pointless, and that really pisses me off. They basically reduced Ianto to "Oh, someone else that Jack can lose for no particualr reason, just because we like making Jack suffer." Not the efficient, funny, innovative character we've come to know. He might have been anyone. And there was simply no reason for him to be there. None at all.
Also, as well as not making any sense in the plot, I don't even think that whole end to the episode was very effective dramatically. They'd spent four episodes building up that the 456 can, to some extent, control children, making them speak. A huge part of the dramatic tension of this episode was due to the debate about whether and how to sacrifice thousands upon thousands of children. It was tense and horrible, in some parts cold and callous, in others hopeless, desperate. it was great TV. And then, they showed, well if kinda randomally, how the 456 can use this control to kill Clem. I liked Clem. I wish he hadn't died. But, he did. And it was dramatic. It had been built up to a climax. On the other hand, there was the whole virus thing, which as far as I'm concerned was basically an excuse, a mcguffin designed to help support Jack's previous awful decision. And it was a totally fine mcguffin for that purpose. And I think by using another deadly virus thing maybe they were trying to make it slightly less mcguffin-y and more of a real plot point, but I think they mainly completely undermined themselves. I think it would have been far more effective if the 456 had used the control it had over the kids in the same way it had with Clem. The whole episode was about killing children. The whole series has been about power over children. If the 456 had killed some children, and then continued to demand more, now that would have been dramatic. Maybe even killed one of John Frobisher's, or Jack's grandson, or Ianto's neice or nephew. It would have been devastating, but more subtle, and would have continued racking up the pressure on the politicians, on the decision about whether to surrender and give in or fight nobly and die inevitably.
But, instead the writers decide to go with a virus. Idiots. Pointless, stupid, disappointing.
And so gratuitous.
This is clearly one of the weaknesses of the Doctor Who/Torchwood writers, even though, at least in my opinion, the subtler ones are always the best, the most dramatic, and the most scary, and the most heart breaking. What happened to Donna for instance, was in many ways wose than her dying, emotionally at least, and was a much better ending than her just dying. What happened to Rose, both times, was more subtle, more insiduous, than it first seemed. She got a happy ending - or did she? That is the kind of writing that is very very good. Subtle. The crazy huge stuff can be a little wearying at times, but its the small stuf that can be so breath taking. Blink, Midnight - and in Torchwood, look no futher than Adam; a simpler, smaller concept but executed precisely, can be breath taking, heart wrenching.
But, the gratuitousness. Since Torchwood has begun, since Gwen joined the team, every single member has died, some, not just Jack, more than once. Even Rhys has died and come back to life. At the end of te last series, both Owen and Tosh died, and ok it was splendid, but still, that's two fifths of the team. Susie dying in the first episode was shocking and effective, and Owen and Tosh dying was heart breaking and excellent TV. But still. They have now lost the car, the Hub, all the previous team members, and that cool doctor charaacter that they set up for the purpose. Moreover, the killing of Jack is getting a little out of hand. OK, the situation is serious, and OK a lot of people want Jack dead. And, I liked the whole killings/bomb/explosion/nakedness/concrete storyline, that was really interesting. But come on now. Before Gwen joined the team, none of the rest of them even knew that Jack didn't stay dead. And ok, so the 21st century is when it all changes, but seriously its getting a bit silly. And now, on top of all that, Ianto has died. For no reason. Which I can't help feeling also detracted from Clem's death. Ianto died, pointlessly, and this just highlights how much they indulge for no reason.
I just... Ianto was at Torchwood One. He survived so many other things, Cybermen, Daleks, and blood thirsty screenwriters. And then they take him down by awkwardly putting him in a stupid situation where he doesn't even do anything, he just breathes in the wrong place and the wrong time. That just makes me angry. I don't mind them killing him if they did it well, but frankly they didn't. They did it so stupidly, and it was a betrayal.
I don't know. I might have more to say later - at this point I am yet to read anybody else's opinions, but. Well. I am sad, and annoyed, and angry, and disappointed.
Poor Ianto. He deserved better.
Well.
I am annoyed. I might even be angered.
I am also saddened, and disappointed.
So, Ianto died last night.
Now, I don't like spoilers. I hate spoilers. I don't like being spoiled, and I hate hate hate if I spoil someone else by accident. But, even without spoilers I was pretty sue Ianto was going to die. I kept trying to deny it, hope for the best, but to be honest the Torchwood writers are a bit obvious and predictable in this regard. Also, how many times have they tried to kill Ianto now, like 2? 3? They never really knew what to do with his character, and probably didn't predict the huge fandom following he would have when he was created. Plus at the Hub 2 GDL mentioned he was looking for pilots. So yeah, I was really hoping he wouldn't be killed, but it wasn't a shock.
But, it was really annoying. Frankly it pissed me off.
It pissed me off because Ianto's death was entirely pointless.
It was stupid. It didn't make sense. It was a complete betrayal of the character.
And I am particularly angry because the rest of the Children of Earth series so far has been really, really good. The writers have proven they can in fact write, they've used the extended format to their advantage. And now, they just fuck it all up completely pointlessly.
There was absolutely no reason for Ianto to even be in that building. It would have been a better plan, one that made more sense, if Ianto had gone with Rhys - he could have protected Rhys, protected the footage. Ianto knows more about computers than Rhys does. If Rhys had been caught somehow, and out of all of them obviously he is most likely to slip up, as much as I love him, so having Ianto go with him might have actually been a good idea. Day Two showed how the team can be really quite effective when they are apart. And in the event the assassin woman just shot Gwen and Jack was I don't know, trapped agan somehow, wouldn't you prefer Ianto to still be out there. You would. Obviously.
Ianto could not defend Jack, and his being there provided someone else to distract Jack and possibly provide someone Jack would have to defend. Jack's family was already being held hostage. It was not at all sensible to put someone ele he cares about in needless harm when he wasn't also adding anything.
And, quite frankly, he wasn't. He made those phone calls, but he couold have then gone off to meet Rhys or something. He followed jack into the building, and Jack didn't really do anything either to be honest, but at least Jack can't die. Or stay dead anyway. Ianto stood next to Jack, and made a couple of silly comments, and then he died. There was no point to it. The writers could have at least come up with some mcguffin that Ianto had to do something in the room, or was even guarding the door, something, anything, but no. He wasn't doing anything at all, and there was absolutely no reason for Ianto to go into the building, except to die.
I wouldn't be so angry if he'd been given a good death. I'd still be sad of course, but still. When Tosh and owen died, it made sense. They were heroes. They had amazing deaths. I miss them, but they went out brilliantly, poignant and heart breaking, and not entirely ridiculously. It was sad, but it was excellent writing. And that simply wasn't the case with Ianto's death. They've shown Ianto to be caring, intelligent, noble, and his death was so stupid and pointless, and that really pisses me off. They basically reduced Ianto to "Oh, someone else that Jack can lose for no particualr reason, just because we like making Jack suffer." Not the efficient, funny, innovative character we've come to know. He might have been anyone. And there was simply no reason for him to be there. None at all.
Also, as well as not making any sense in the plot, I don't even think that whole end to the episode was very effective dramatically. They'd spent four episodes building up that the 456 can, to some extent, control children, making them speak. A huge part of the dramatic tension of this episode was due to the debate about whether and how to sacrifice thousands upon thousands of children. It was tense and horrible, in some parts cold and callous, in others hopeless, desperate. it was great TV. And then, they showed, well if kinda randomally, how the 456 can use this control to kill Clem. I liked Clem. I wish he hadn't died. But, he did. And it was dramatic. It had been built up to a climax. On the other hand, there was the whole virus thing, which as far as I'm concerned was basically an excuse, a mcguffin designed to help support Jack's previous awful decision. And it was a totally fine mcguffin for that purpose. And I think by using another deadly virus thing maybe they were trying to make it slightly less mcguffin-y and more of a real plot point, but I think they mainly completely undermined themselves. I think it would have been far more effective if the 456 had used the control it had over the kids in the same way it had with Clem. The whole episode was about killing children. The whole series has been about power over children. If the 456 had killed some children, and then continued to demand more, now that would have been dramatic. Maybe even killed one of John Frobisher's, or Jack's grandson, or Ianto's neice or nephew. It would have been devastating, but more subtle, and would have continued racking up the pressure on the politicians, on the decision about whether to surrender and give in or fight nobly and die inevitably.
But, instead the writers decide to go with a virus. Idiots. Pointless, stupid, disappointing.
And so gratuitous.
This is clearly one of the weaknesses of the Doctor Who/Torchwood writers, even though, at least in my opinion, the subtler ones are always the best, the most dramatic, and the most scary, and the most heart breaking. What happened to Donna for instance, was in many ways wose than her dying, emotionally at least, and was a much better ending than her just dying. What happened to Rose, both times, was more subtle, more insiduous, than it first seemed. She got a happy ending - or did she? That is the kind of writing that is very very good. Subtle. The crazy huge stuff can be a little wearying at times, but its the small stuf that can be so breath taking. Blink, Midnight - and in Torchwood, look no futher than Adam; a simpler, smaller concept but executed precisely, can be breath taking, heart wrenching.
But, the gratuitousness. Since Torchwood has begun, since Gwen joined the team, every single member has died, some, not just Jack, more than once. Even Rhys has died and come back to life. At the end of te last series, both Owen and Tosh died, and ok it was splendid, but still, that's two fifths of the team. Susie dying in the first episode was shocking and effective, and Owen and Tosh dying was heart breaking and excellent TV. But still. They have now lost the car, the Hub, all the previous team members, and that cool doctor charaacter that they set up for the purpose. Moreover, the killing of Jack is getting a little out of hand. OK, the situation is serious, and OK a lot of people want Jack dead. And, I liked the whole killings/bomb/explosion/nakedness/concrete storyline, that was really interesting. But come on now. Before Gwen joined the team, none of the rest of them even knew that Jack didn't stay dead. And ok, so the 21st century is when it all changes, but seriously its getting a bit silly. And now, on top of all that, Ianto has died. For no reason. Which I can't help feeling also detracted from Clem's death. Ianto died, pointlessly, and this just highlights how much they indulge for no reason.
I just... Ianto was at Torchwood One. He survived so many other things, Cybermen, Daleks, and blood thirsty screenwriters. And then they take him down by awkwardly putting him in a stupid situation where he doesn't even do anything, he just breathes in the wrong place and the wrong time. That just makes me angry. I don't mind them killing him if they did it well, but frankly they didn't. They did it so stupidly, and it was a betrayal.
I don't know. I might have more to say later - at this point I am yet to read anybody else's opinions, but. Well. I am sad, and annoyed, and angry, and disappointed.
Poor Ianto. He deserved better.
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(no subject)
Date: 2009-07-10 11:02 am (UTC)But isn't this the last series of Torchwood? If so, they were probably stuck with an ending for Ianto, and decided to kill him off.
Do you think he could have been killed off in a better way? If so, how? If I had to kill him off, I would have done it in Day 5, and make it sudden (perhaps how the Dalek suddenly shot the Doctor when he was running to meet Rose in the penultimate series 4 episode).
(no subject)
Date: 2009-07-10 11:46 am (UTC)As I said, I really think Ianto deserved so much more. The writers know how much he is loved, knew how much anger and pain this would cause - and then they add insult to injury by not even doing it justice. And while I understand why they might want to kill him off generally, to do so so badly is just cruel. Their rating have been huge this series, but a huge chunk of fandom (I'm not sure whether I would place myself within their number, but nevertheless) won't be involved again.
That's another problem with Torchwood - it, and the writers behind it, have always chased after new audiences, always constantly wanted to change, to shake it up, without properly appreciating the fans, the audience they already had. I mean, I don't at all think they should pander to the ans, because that way madness lies, but a bit more respect, regular seasons, clearer plots, staying on the same channel would have been nice. I'd be OK if they'd had more respect for Ianto's character and his many fans, but they don't seem to at the moment. Maybe they'll reverse it,maybe they won't. But at the moment at least I think they have done something wrong, badly, and have missed the opportunity to do something so much better.
That they haven't done it on Day 5, that there's still a possibility it might be reversed, is like the only thing giving me hope. Not much though.
If it was me, I'd have wanted him to have died more nobly, heroically, and preferably on his own terms, maybe sacrificing himself somehow, or being shot ruthlessly after refusing to give up Jack or principles or stop doing whatever might help save the world. Like when he nearly didn't get out of the Hub because he was locking it down instead. Something more like that. Maybe, if they had had Ianto go with Rhys, he could have died getting the footage out, and saved Rhys' life, thereby not only showing him to be awesome and dying tragically, but adding yet another angsty guilt tripping road block to an potential future Jack/Gwen chemistry. That would have been interesting. Something that showed and displayed his character at its best. Not that pointless, impotent betrayal.
I don't know whether this will be the last series of Torchwood, though I'm sure it will be the last for a while, since Eve is pregnant and John is doing La Cage. I would have thought the beeb would recommission it due to its rating this series alone, but on the other hand its looking like there won't be any set, any characters, any point. Perhaps they'll commission a series of Randy, I'd probably still watch that.
Oh my god, that Dalek shooting the Doctor in 4x12 nearly killed me. Magnificient TV. (If you want, you can find my rather hysterical post about it somewhere under my doctor who tag...)